(A follow up to this post -- for all you dissenters -- may be found here, dated January 4, 2010.)
I spent several hours in the car yesterday and when I travel any distance, I like to listen to talk radio. In this area, on the weekends, that often means listening to Dr. Dean Edell, an iconic radio doctor who was among the first to take to the airwaves to provide us with a combination of everything from research results, to the ability to read between the lines on what we read about medical care, to knowledgeable medical answers for callers, to candid opinions about the world of medicine.
Here is one of my favorite Dr. Dean-isms: He's a critic of many published medical research results as they address cause and effect. To help us better understand why they aren't always accurate, he gives this example:
If 100 drivers cause auto accidents, and they all ate carrots just prior to those accidents, that does not prove that eating carrots causes auto accidents.
Makes sense, right? And a good example of why we must carefully evaluate medical research to be sure it is valid, and applies to us.
On yesterday's show, Dr. Dean began talking about a study that shows that the regular seasonal flu vaccine may also help a body fight H1N1 swine flu, too. Then he talked about his frustration at those who believe vaccines are evil, or even just problematic. He cited the safe history of flu vaccines, indeed most vaccines, and his disbelief at the numbers of people who just refuse to be vaccinated.
And then -- in classic Dean Edell style -- he declared he's going to stop defending vaccines. That anyone with any intelligence knows flu vaccines are useful, and that if they don't get vaccinated and die from the flu -- well -- that's just nature's way of cleaning out the gene pool.
I know I don't have to explain that statement to my readers -- you get his point. But as I thought more about it, I realized that most people who are against getting flu shots, or getting vaccinated, truly do not understand the cause and effect. They don't understand the odds. They are playing roulette with their own lives (if they won't get vaccinated themselves) or with their children or loved ones (when they refuse vaccination for those in their care). Further - they don't care about people around them who might get sick and die.
So what do you think of Dr. Edell's statement? Vote in this poll!
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(A follow up to this post -- for all you dissenters -- may be found here, dated January 4, 2010.)
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Although I love your blog post, and will have to listen to this guy’s show, I have some problems with your pole options. I think that the reasons many people choose not to get vaccines aren’t addressed. I.e. that they think that vaccines are more dangerous than the potential disease. You and I may think they’re horribly misled, and be supported in that belief by research, but it would have been more encompassing to also have an answer along the lines of “He’s wrong. I don’t get vaccines, because I’d rather risk dying of the flu than dying from a vaccine. They clear out the gene pool too.”
I too think your choices are very unfair. They are along the lines of the old joke “when did you stop beating your wife”. As in there’s no way to be OK if you don’t take flu shots.
Many of us believe that flu shots are highly toxic and that the risk is not worth it if you are young enough and have a strong immune system. That doesn’t mean we don’t care if we pass the flu to others!! There are precautions one can take if one is sick.
This site says it’s about patient empowerment but I have to question that when I see how skewed these choices are. To me, an important element of patient empowerment is to offer information, but also to support the patients right to make an informed decision that might be different than what the establishment wants — not shame them into agreeing with you.
I personally don’t get flu vaccines because I’m not convinced they’re useful and I think that we’re being sold a bill of good about them. There isn’t any real proof that they help and there IS a credible argument that the benefits of flu vaccines are vastly overstated, some of which is summarized here: http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200911/brownlee-h1n1
I didn’t vote in your poll. It is really arrogant to assume that not getting a vaccine = not caring about passing viruses on to others. Perhaps we might, you know, stay home when we’re sick and not go around coughing in people’s faces?
I am in administration at a nursing skilled care facility. All staff are strongly encouraged to get the flu vaccine each year, because if the patients get the flu, some of them die. Despite that, some staff always refuse. And every year, a patient or two dies of influenza brought into the facility by staff or visitors.
Even health care “professionals” can have strange attitudes towards vaccination. For me it is a simple moral imperative. If I don’t get the vaccine, I may transmit the virus to someone and kill them.
Does the vaccine work? Since doubters only trust what they and their friends experience — my experience is that I haven’t had influenza in the 30 years since I started getting the yearly vaccinations.
I have to agree with the other posters. Your stand is extremely arrogant and irrational. What about the people who can’t get the vaccine for starters. Or do you just figure they are weak and should be drowned in the gene pool at well?
Anyone who believes that a magic shot will cure all is a fool. Learning good hygiene and taking precautions when you are ill can safeguard your health, others, and prevent the need for unnecessary drugs. Yes, I say unnecessary. While we do partake in most vaccines, flu vaccines are not a necessity in my family. And the shot aren’t sugar water. There are significant medications and additives that you should take into consideration.
This post makes question whether you really want patients to be empowered or prefer we act like sheep following the pharma-supported health care providers who issued this recommendation.
I don’t think patient empowerment is something that can be turned on and off. Once patients become accustomed to doing research and asking questions and becoming part of the decision-making process, they understandably want to do that with all aspects of health care. Why is it that with vaccines, asking questions and seeking choices and not just sitting down and shutting up and doing what the doctor says makes you too stupid to live?
For better or worse, patients are starting to feel that it is their right to have a choice. I think the medical profession has to do a better job of offering choices with vaccine schedules and vaccine contents, and of acknowledging that not all vaccines are as vitally important as others. I think there’s room for doctors to work with patients and parents on this issue, just like any other, without endangering public safety. The danger comes when people believe their only options are all or nothing.
And … you know, if 100 drivers had accidents immediately after eating carrots, it doesn’t prove carrots cause accidents, but it doesn’t prove they didn’t cause those particular accidents. Wouldn’t it be a good idea for someone to make sure they didn’t all get tainted carrots from somewhere? Shouldn’t hurt to ask.
Although I think highly of your newsletter and find it very informative I too disagree with this poll’s response choices.
There are other valid reasons why some of don’t get flu vaccines. I for one can’t because I’ve had Guillain-Barre Syndrome. There is a list of medical reasons that make the flu vaccine contra indicated. None of those reasons were included as choices in your poll.
I also think Dr. Edell’s comment about’cleaning out the gene pool’ is outrageousd,inflammatory and unethical as a medical professional.
I could not vote in your poll either, because not getting vaccines that could harm our DNA and possibly cause us autoimmune diseases, cancer, or even death, does not mean we do not care about others. I have had severe reactions before, and truly know that I would be a lot healthier if not for all the vaccines I have had in my life. I have some questions for this doctor. Do you read the inserts of the vaccines from each of the manufacturers? Do you find the patents of these vaccinations to know exactly what is them? Let’s take a look on what are really in vaccines. Formaldehyde, mercury, and aluminum compounds, Phenol (carbolic acid), borax (ant killer) methanol, dye Acetone (solven, polish remover), disinfectant,glycerine, Antifreeze, MSG, and several other poisons, plus, ALSO TOXIC WHEN INJECTED, Animal organ tissue and blood, (e.g. monkey, cow, chicken pig, sheep, dog, cat, etc) Contaminant animal viruses (e.g. SV40, which causes cancer in humans), (this is why children are getting cancer) Aborted human foetus cells, large and foreign proteins, Mutated (more virulent) human viruses in high doses (Note: “Killed” viruses in high doses can reactivate after being injected), Bacterial endotoxins, antibiotics, bacteria, Genetically modified yeast, latex, and animal, bacterial, and viral DNA, which, when injected Can be incorporated in the recipient’s DNA. Injections bypass important defenses in the skin and mucous membranes. Please watch “Medical Doctor Retracts H1N1 Vaccine Advice After Reading Insert at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emlkMRMWskU. We all need to do research to find the truth. What causes us to search for truth is usually something has to wake us up first. Trisha, I appreciate a lot of your information, but we all need to be like you and do a lot of research regarding anything that is put into our body.
The longer I live, the more I see what we once we thought was scientifically correct is not always so.
For instance, it used to be that we did not consider that it could be unhealthy to be too clean (barring the use of chemical cleansers, of course). Now we are told that cleanliness can be overdone and that children are at higher risk of allergens — that children’s exposure to germs help develop their immune systems .
This is is an example of two issues to me.
Issue One — that those who are so sure about their pronouncements are sometimes in error. These pronouncements may be based on the ability or sensitivity of research methods to measure variables; or the ability of the research design, methodology, or protocols to measure important aspects that are being looked for or at; and/or erroneous interpretations of results or connections that occurred based on lack if intellect or imagination. Perhaps current knowledge confines research design, methodology, and interpretation. For instance, up until the 1970s or so, we did not even know there was an immune system. So what’s the chance that research affected by the immune system was fully understood? Another example fo this is the appendix. The belief has been that it is a remnant from the some past function that is no longer needed. Recent finding by some researchers reveals that the appendix creates good germs to protect us from bad germs .
Issue two — As with protecting our children with too much cleanliness thereby reducing exposure to germs can affect the development of a healthy, strong immune system, can we overprotect our immune systems with too many vaccines? Not a politically correct question, but one that begs to be asked anyway. Are we at some point in the future discover that inadvertent and unsuspected problems have occurred because of too many vaccines and/or timing of vaccines and/or components of vaccines etc. (etc. included for something that we may not be aware of based on current physiological understandings but is relevant nonetheless).
People may be being ‘ignorant’ by not following current medical wisdom and pronouncements, but perhaps they are actually ahead of their time. Only time will tell.
Well, in the ZERO years that I have gotten the flu vaccine and haven’t had the flu it must then mean that I stayed home and washed my hands every 5 minutes. In fact, I have contact with hundreds of people every week, 3 kids in school and NO FLU! Could it possibly be that I didn’t get it because my immune system was strong? C’mon “scientists” there is much more to human biology and health than vaccines, drugs and surgery! And might I add, if you experience life, you experience risk. Do you choose to do it with little more than empirical data that all vaccinations are effective and shoot ‘em up or do you choose to examine the reliable data and just say no? Make a decision and stop judging others for being different. BTW, if you’re vaccinated, shouldn’t that mean that you’re “safe” from getting the flu? What are you worried about then?
Edell had this to say last week. I think he’s an arrogant jerk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhAIGAh7QZM
I agree wholeheartedly that the flu vaccine is a good idea. And I hope that someday soon, there will be an option for flu vaccine that is not cultivated in eggs. I am allergic to eggs and therefore cannot get the flu vaccine, yet because of my rheumatoid arthritis, I am on a medication that suppresses my immune system and it is important that I received the protection that a vaccine could give me . But I can’t, because of the allergy.